Concerning the U.S., and Israel, and your endorsing Paul Craig Roberts' libelous and unfounded claims. The US is probably one of the most generous countries in the world as well as most stringently self policing. We also happen to be one of the most highly visible, therefore any of our short comings are amplified the world over. We are not perfect but we are not the greatest threat to World Peace. People in our country are more freedom and opportunity than most. Just ask an immigrant. cont...
(cont.) Per Israel: Let’s just be real. The conflict is religious. You cannot deny that. And the Jews have a longer and more deep rooted historical connection to the land than any other civilization or people ever. Not to mention that the “Palestinian” cause is none other than people with a genocidal agenda against Israel using poor Palestinian refugees as a proxy to fight Israel politically. There is all sorts of history to support this. See early maps for Jewish Palestine an Arab Palestine (Jordan)…
1. A simple reblog of someone else’s quote should not be automatically considered an endorsement.
2. Having said that, short of the Hitler and Stalin references, if I’m honest I would tend to agree with the general assessment that a) the rest of the world does not view the United States with the same rosy outlook as we do ourselves, and b) the governments of the United States and Israel have, in recent history certainly, not cared a whole lot about what the rest of the nations on earth might think about our approach to, shall we say, “conflict” resolution.
3. It is possible to have more “freedom and opportunity” in America than most other countries and still be making continual grievous errors with regard to foreign policy and our generally misguided attempts to install democracy or enforce morality worldwide.
4. Are you saying that Jews have a deeper history—and deserve “the land” more—than displaced tribes in Africa or the diverse indigenous peoples of the Americas? I’m not claiming the Jewish people are making up claims about genocide or eradication, but is it not even worth asking the question “If Israel is so concerned about misplaced people groups and the rights of the historically oppressed, what are they doing to improve that situation in their own back yard?”
5. I think it’s safe to say your generalization of “the ‘Palestinian’ cause” is in need of some nuance and perspective. I’m not saying the people in control of Palestine, or even everyday Palestinians themselves, are free from culpability in this conflict. What I am saying is that to portray Israel as blameless here in all aspects of the racial/religious/geopolitical conflict that has been boiling for millennia is, in my mind, the same as saying America is exceptional in every regard and by our virtuous intent we are absolved of any wrongdoing… and it is striking how often the jingoistic nature of those two fundamentalist mindsets exist in the same person simultaneously… indeed, a Venn diagram for the two would seem a near-perfect circle lately.
6. I think the conflict is more political in nature than religious, as you assert. Then again, religion at the nation-state level really is about power, control, land grabs, politics… so, maybe you’re right, but I suspect that’s not what you meant.
7. I find the extremely cozy nature of US-Israeli relations to be deserving of the skepticism thrown our direction by the rest of the world. Imagine for a moment you’re someone other than an American or Israeli and you have a front row seat to the military dominance and unsurpassed wartime technology of these two superpowers… I just think some perspective is in order here. If that view makes me “anti-Israeli,” well… I just don’t know what else to say other than I guess I’m anti-American, as well… which is to say: laughably false and an immature retort, imho, but whatever.
8. I’m open to being shown evidence that I’m incorrect about any of this, but for the record I should note that I’ve got a busy few weeks ahead of me and I’m slammed at work of late, so if people want to comment or weigh in I’m down with all of that… I just can’t promise a timely response, and it’d be great if we kept the name-calling and assumptions about one’s character in check in the interest of respectful dialogue. I repeat: simply reblogging a contentious quote should not imply wholehearted and unequivocal endorsement.
What you just rev logged about Israel/The U.S. is bullshit and you know it.
2. So, reblogs (or “rev logged” posts…??) always mean agreement or support of the opinion presented?
3. Color me unsurprised to find out that was “bullshit” from a person whose tumblr handle and name refers to a Hebrew patriarch.
4. It’s always fascinating to find out from total strangers on the internet what I should “know.”
5. Are you interested in actual dialogue about an impossibly complex problem? Or is anyone who doesn’t proclaim their unfettered public support and undying loyalty to your own position automatically castigated and rendered an idiot unfit for serious ideological debate?
EDIT: 6. I like your band. Yay, common ground. Something on which can build! :)
This bullshit has been confirmed. I cannot be any clearer — what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is so very wrong, and to say so is not anti-Semitic.
"You realize that it’s impossible to be moral in an immoral situation." — Gavner Gvaryahu
Why… after 45 years, does Israel continue to occupy territory in Lebanon, Syria and Palestine? Why has Israel been able to develop chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, disregarding every international treaty, while Iran is threatened with pre-emptive attack for undertaking nuclear research? Why has Israel been the subject of more UN Resolutions than any other country in the world? And why has the USA vetoed virtually every single one of them? Why when the USA has been the pioneer of the ‘Two State’ solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, based on the rule of international law and 1967 borders, did it then deny Palestinians UN recognition? Why is there such a close relationship today between Evangelicals in America and the State of Israel?
Some vitally important questions, it would seem.
when i see an israeli jew on fb writing on an acquaintances wall to “fucking kill them all” in reference to the palestinians, I wonder if he can even pause for a moment to wonder about that kind of thinking and his people’s history?
someone has to go first and take a step. b/c each side can point to pain and loss in their families, we’ll otherwise keep going round and round and round. And i don’t see how that first step can be by anyone other than those with the power in the region.
i’m not hopeful…
I don’t get.
Any of it.
On 9/11, I’ll mourn the nearly 3,000 lives lost, over 6,000 injuries, the infrastructural carnage and devastation in NYC, all perpetrated ignorantly in the name of my religion.
On 9/12, I’ll mourn the nearly 1,000,000 lives, the 10’s of millions of injuries, the infrastructural decimation in 3 countries, and the humiliation of my religion, all perpetrated ignorantly in the name of my country.
Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules of international law. It has, in particular, waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children.
Nelson Mandela (via fuckyeahmarxismleninism)
Always reblog. If Nelson Mandela says it’s apartheid, it’s probably apartheid.
vruz: I think he has seen apartheid up close, he can probably tell it when he sees it.