Concerning the U.S., and Israel, and your endorsing Paul Craig Roberts' libelous and unfounded claims. The US is probably one of the most generous countries in the world as well as most stringently self policing. We also happen to be one of the most highly visible, therefore any of our short comings are amplified the world over. We are not perfect but we are not the greatest threat to World Peace. People in our country are more freedom and opportunity than most. Just ask an immigrant. cont...
(cont.) Per Israel: Let’s just be real. The conflict is religious. You cannot deny that. And the Jews have a longer and more deep rooted historical connection to the land than any other civilization or people ever. Not to mention that the “Palestinian” cause is none other than people with a genocidal agenda against Israel using poor Palestinian refugees as a proxy to fight Israel politically. There is all sorts of history to support this. See early maps for Jewish Palestine an Arab Palestine (Jordan)…
1. A simple reblog of someone else’s quote should not be automatically considered an endorsement.
2. Having said that, short of the Hitler and Stalin references, if I’m honest I would tend to agree with the general assessment that a) the rest of the world does not view the United States with the same rosy outlook as we do ourselves, and b) the governments of the United States and Israel have, in recent history certainly, not cared a whole lot about what the rest of the nations on earth might think about our approach to, shall we say, “conflict” resolution.
3. It is possible to have more “freedom and opportunity” in America than most other countries and still be making continual grievous errors with regard to foreign policy and our generally misguided attempts to install democracy or enforce morality worldwide.
4. Are you saying that Jews have a deeper history—and deserve “the land” more—than displaced tribes in Africa or the diverse indigenous peoples of the Americas? I’m not claiming the Jewish people are making up claims about genocide or eradication, but is it not even worth asking the question “If Israel is so concerned about misplaced people groups and the rights of the historically oppressed, what are they doing to improve that situation in their own back yard?”
5. I think it’s safe to say your generalization of “the ‘Palestinian’ cause” is in need of some nuance and perspective. I’m not saying the people in control of Palestine, or even everyday Palestinians themselves, are free from culpability in this conflict. What I am saying is that to portray Israel as blameless here in all aspects of the racial/religious/geopolitical conflict that has been boiling for millennia is, in my mind, the same as saying America is exceptional in every regard and by our virtuous intent we are absolved of any wrongdoing… and it is striking how often the jingoistic nature of those two fundamentalist mindsets exist in the same person simultaneously… indeed, a Venn diagram for the two would seem a near-perfect circle lately.
6. I think the conflict is more political in nature than religious, as you assert. Then again, religion at the nation-state level really is about power, control, land grabs, politics… so, maybe you’re right, but I suspect that’s not what you meant.
7. I find the extremely cozy nature of US-Israeli relations to be deserving of the skepticism thrown our direction by the rest of the world. Imagine for a moment you’re someone other than an American or Israeli and you have a front row seat to the military dominance and unsurpassed wartime technology of these two superpowers… I just think some perspective is in order here. If that view makes me “anti-Israeli,” well… I just don’t know what else to say other than I guess I’m anti-American, as well… which is to say: laughably false and an immature retort, imho, but whatever.
8. I’m open to being shown evidence that I’m incorrect about any of this, but for the record I should note that I’ve got a busy few weeks ahead of me and I’m slammed at work of late, so if people want to comment or weigh in I’m down with all of that… I just can’t promise a timely response, and it’d be great if we kept the name-calling and assumptions about one’s character in check in the interest of respectful dialogue. I repeat: simply reblogging a contentious quote should not imply wholehearted and unequivocal endorsement.
What you just rev logged about Israel/The U.S. is bullshit and you know it.
2. So, reblogs (or “rev logged” posts…??) always mean agreement or support of the opinion presented?
3. Color me unsurprised to find out that was “bullshit” from a person whose tumblr handle and name refers to a Hebrew patriarch.
4. It’s always fascinating to find out from total strangers on the internet what I should “know.”
5. Are you interested in actual dialogue about an impossibly complex problem? Or is anyone who doesn’t proclaim their unfettered public support and undying loyalty to your own position automatically castigated and rendered an idiot unfit for serious ideological debate?
EDIT: 6. I like your band. Yay, common ground. Something on which can build! :)
This bullshit has been confirmed. I cannot be any clearer — what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is so very wrong, and to say so is not anti-Semitic.
"You realize that it’s impossible to be moral in an immoral situation." — Gavner Gvaryahu
Why… after 45 years, does Israel continue to occupy territory in Lebanon, Syria and Palestine? Why has Israel been able to develop chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, disregarding every international treaty, while Iran is threatened with pre-emptive attack for undertaking nuclear research? Why has Israel been the subject of more UN Resolutions than any other country in the world? And why has the USA vetoed virtually every single one of them? Why when the USA has been the pioneer of the ‘Two State’ solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, based on the rule of international law and 1967 borders, did it then deny Palestinians UN recognition? Why is there such a close relationship today between Evangelicals in America and the State of Israel?
Some vitally important questions, it would seem.
when i see an israeli jew on fb writing on an acquaintances wall to “fucking kill them all” in reference to the palestinians, I wonder if he can even pause for a moment to wonder about that kind of thinking and his people’s history?
someone has to go first and take a step. b/c each side can point to pain and loss in their families, we’ll otherwise keep going round and round and round. And i don’t see how that first step can be by anyone other than those with the power in the region.
i’m not hopeful…
I don’t get.
Any of it.
On 9/11, I’ll mourn the nearly 3,000 lives lost, over 6,000 injuries, the infrastructural carnage and devastation in NYC, all perpetrated ignorantly in the name of my religion.
On 9/12, I’ll mourn the nearly 1,000,000 lives, the 10’s of millions of injuries, the infrastructural decimation in 3 countries, and the humiliation of my religion, all perpetrated ignorantly in the name of my country.
Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules of international law. It has, in particular, waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children.
Nelson Mandela (via fuckyeahmarxismleninism)
Always reblog. If Nelson Mandela says it’s apartheid, it’s probably apartheid.
vruz: I think he has seen apartheid up close, he can probably tell it when he sees it.
Not what you think: Helen Thomas appearing in Playboy in April: “I knew exactly what I was doing — I was going for broke,” the disgraced Dean of the White House Press Corps says in her first major interview since being fired. (via producermatthew) source
To quoth Gandhi (from Clone High), “say whaaaaaaat?”
I’d really love it if my followers would read this exchange.
On the aftermath of her May 27 remarks about Israel: “I went into self-imposed house arrest for two weeks…Every columnist and commentator jumped on me immediately as anti-Semitic. Nobody asked me to explain myself. Nobody said, ‘What did you really mean?’”
On the situation in Palestine: “Everybody knows my feelings that the Palestinians have been shortchanged in every way. Sure, the Israelis have a right to exist – but where they were born, not to come and take someone else’s home. I’ve had it up to here with the violations against the Palestinians…[The Palestinians] are incarcerated and living in an open prison. I say to the Israelis, ‘Get out of people’s homes!’ It’s unacceptable to have soldiers knocking on a door at three in the morning and saying, ‘This is my home.’ And forcing people out of homes they’ve lived in for centuries? What is this? How can anybody accept it? I mean, Jewish-only roads? [She later corrected herself to say Israeli-only roads.] Would anyone tolerate something like that in America? White-only roads?”
On Palestinian violence against the Israelis: “Of course I don’t condone any violence against anyone. But who wouldn’t fight for their country? What would any American do if their land was being taken? Remember Pearl Harbor. The Palestinian violence is to protect what little remains of Palestine. The suicide bombers act out of despair and desperation. Three generations of Palestinians have been forced out of their homes – by Israelis – and into refugee camps.”
On American support of Israel: “We keep giving Israel everything. Our government bribes the Israelis by saying, ‘Please come to the [negotiating] table and we’ll give you this and we’ll give you that’…Why do you have to bribe people to do the right thing? I don’t want my government bribing anybody. I want them demanding. Stop all this aid to Israel when they’re killing people!…Why do they send my American tax dollars to perpetuate it?”
On Jews: “I think they’re wonderful people. They had to have the most depth. They were leaders in civil rights. They’ve always had the heart for others but not for Arabs, for some reason. I’m not anti-Jewish; I’m anti-Zionist.”
On Jewish persecution and victimization: “The slaughter of Jews stopped with World War II…They were liberated since then. And yet they carry on the victimization. American people do not know that the Israeli lobbyists have intimidated them into believing every Jew is a persecuted victim forever – while they are victimizing Palestinians…Why do they inflict the same pain on people who did nothing to them?”
On memorializing the Holocaust: “There’s nothing wrong with remembering it, but why do we have to constantly remember? We’re not at fault. I mean, if they’re going to put a Holocaust museum in every city in Germany, that’s fine with me. But we didn’t do this to the Jews. Why do we have to keep paying the price and why do they keep oppressing the Palestinians? Do the Jews ever look at themselves? Why are they always right? Because they have been oppressed throughout history, I know. And they have this persecution. That’s true, but they shouldn’t use that to dominate.”
On the Jews’ influence and power: “[The Jews are] using their power, and they have power in every direction…Power over the White House, power over Congress…Everybody is in the pocket of the Israeli lobbies, which are funded by wealthy supporters, including those from Hollywood. Same thing with the financial markets. There’s total control…It isn’t the two percent. It’s real power when you own the White House, when you own these other places in terms of your political persuasion. Of course they have power. [To the interviewer] You don’t deny that. You’re Jewish, aren’t you?”
On Congress’s anti-Arab sentiments: “I want you to look at the Congress that just came in. Do you think [New York Democratic senator Charles] Schumer and Lehtinen – whatever her name is – in Florida [Republican representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, a strong supporter of Israel] are going to be pro-Arab? No. But they’re going to be very influential. Eric Cantor, the majority leader of the Republicans, do you think he’s going to be for the Arabs? Hell no! I’m telling you, you cannot get 330 votes in Congress for anything that’s pro-Arab. Nothing.”
On the uprisings and demonstrations sweeping through the Arab world: “I love the new revolutionary spirit in the Middle East and North Africa. The power of the people is removing ruthless dictators in Tunisia and Egypt – and that’s only the beginning. There is no stopping this free new movement. The Arab world is waking up to the possibilities of democratic life and freedom for its people, and I am happy to see this happening in my lifetime.”
On what her obituary will say: “[Eyes suddenly fill with tears] Oh, I know what they’re going to say: ‘anti-Semite’…They don’t give a damn about the truth. They have to have it their way, and they’ll be writing my obituary…I don’t care what they write about me…Because of what happened recently, people are going to remember me a certain way. The truth is, I don’t hate anybody. I care deeply about people. I care for the poor, the sick, the lame, the harmed, those who’ve been treated unjustly.”
“…no matter the occasion, no matter the question, no matter the newspaper or TV or radio journalist, every question must first be answered with a few basic points about the military occupation that has been in place for 34 years since 1967. This is the source of violence, this is the source of the main problems, and it is the reason Israel can never have real peace. Our entire political position must be based on ending the occupation and this must take precedence over any and every other consideration. When Erekat or Shaath or Ashrawi or Khatib is asked something, for example, about the Mitchell report or the Powell visit, the answer should always begin, “so long as there is a military occupation of Palestine by Israel, there can never be peace. Occupation with tanks, soldiers, checkpoints and settlements is violence, and it is much greater than anything Palestinians have done by way of resistance.” Something like that.
These estimable people have to remember that 99 per cent of the people reading newspapers or watching TV news all over the world (including Arabs) have simply forgotten — if they ever knew — that Israel is an illegal occupying power and has been for 34 years. So we must remind the world of that over and over. Repeat and repeat and repeat. This is not a difficult task, although it is, I believe, absolutely crucial. To remind everyone repeatedly about the Israeli occupation is a necessary repetition, much more so than stupidly inconsequential and sentimental Israeli and American-style remarks about peace and violence. Can we learn, or are we condemned to repeat our mistakes forever?”